I was shocked during a recent visit by my parents when my mother came right out of the blue with this statement: “Rihanna sucks!”
She said it with real passion, too, as if this was something she not only believed but believed to the core of her being.
Now, perhaps this doesn’t strike you as odd or interesting because your mother is the sort who readily trashes the things you like. But my mom isn’t like that — at all. My mom is the sort who’ll say “It was very… interesting” about a movie she hated because she knows it’s on the top of my list.
I’m not sure what it is about Rihanna that inspired this reaction from such an equanimous woman. I don’t suspect my dear mother is any more a fan of the music of Lady Gaga or Katy Perry or others of their ilk than that of Rihanna, but she spares them the vicious tongue lashing.
‘A Million Miles Away’ is a ballad from Rihanna’s A Girl Like Me album. A lovely one, I think. I shudder in anticipation of the reaction from mommie dearest.
Silence cuts like a knife as we pretend
And I’m wondering who will be the first to say what we both know
We’re just holding on to “could have been”s and we should be letting go
It feels like you’re a million miles away as you’re lying here with me tonight
I can’t even find the words to say I can find a way to make it right
And we both know that the story’s ending
We play the part but we’re just pretending and I can’t hide the tears
’cause even though you’re here
It feels like you’re a million miles away
Was it me, or was it you that broke away from what we were?
It’s like a season’s love has changed
And every time I think about it, it tears me up inside
Like the rivers of emotion, but I got no more tears to cry
We can try to talk it over but we walked that road before
While our song is playing its last note
We both know for sure that it’s time to close that door
Meet Me In Montauk 
I like this song. Reminds me of something…. though I can’t place it. I like this side of Rihanna (represented by this song or “Take a Bow”) more than the angrier stuff you’ve featured here.
However, I anticipate a retread of the debate often played out on this blog between you and Dana when Rihanna’s name comes up. While I like this song upon first listen, it does seem to me very packaged. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing, but it does surprise me to see you come back to her again and again as a favorite artist.
I guess what I’m saying is…. and I shudder to imagine your reaction… if I didn’t know any better, I would guess she’d won American Idol a couple of seasons ago. Now I watch American Idol, and I love American Idol, so that’s not an insult. I enjoy music by Kelly Clarkson and own albums by Carrie Underwood and David Archuleta (perfectly packaged pop!), and it seems a Rihanna album would fit nicely between offerings from Leona Lewis and Kelly Clarkson.
Again – I don’t think this is a bad thing. But I’ve gotten the sense over the years on this blog that you DO think that’s a bad thing. So why so much love for Rihanna?
Amy stole my thunder here–saying much of the sentiment I feel.
In past discussions, you have conceded that Rihanna is not amongst your favorites and you have acknowledged her shortcomings, particularly her lack of vocal prowess outside of the magic of studio autotune, yet she keeps being featured on your blog again and again and again–while so many truly great artists who inhabit your massive CD collection (Jackson Browne, Joe Jackson– just to name 2 off the top of my head) stay on the sidelines.
And so today you present a perfectly innocuous and forgettable light pop R&B song–one that, as Amy said, could have been sung by the likes of Jordon Sparks. Does it stir hatred? Probably not, as I’m sure even your mom will agree that the song is pretty enough–so I suppose you will consider that a victory?
I just think there is something wrong with your SOTD universe when Rihanna appears three or four (or more?) times while other far better artists remain on the bench.
So I beg of you—enough with Rihanna– it’s pissing off your mother!
The opening of this song reminds me of the score to The Princess Bride, which might be what you’re thinking of.
To answer your question… I’m not sure. It could be that I’d like more of the packaged pop you reference than either of us would expect if I gave it more of a chance. I generally don’t buy those albums so I don’t know what I’m missing.
I bought Good Girl Gone Bad sort of on a whim, persuaded by the rave reviews and a growing appreciation for its lead single ‘Umbrella.’ And I was blown away by it, leading me to seek out other Rihanna albums. Last year’s Rated R was another critical smash. So my appreciation for Rihanna could tie into my general musical snobbery more closely then you’d think. 🙂
I featured Joe Jackson a few weeks ago. Jackson Browne will have his day in the sun.
I know you’ll consider this sacrilege, but I like Rihanna better than both of them. 🙂
And I invite you to submit your own Song of the Day entries, which I’ll gladly post. But in the meantime you’ll have to suffer through the Rihanna just as others have to suffer through the Bob Dylan.
You like Rihanna better than both Joe Jackson and Jackson Browne? I have no response to that!
Let me put it this way… I listen to her albums more than I listen to albums by either of them. So that’s really all I can go on. Certainly they are more accomplished musicians and songwriters than she is, but ultimately that’s not what it’s all about.
First, I would like to apologize for saying that “Rihanna sucks”. I don’t know what came over me, but I think it was a video that I didn’t like for some benefit concert. Anyway, this is a very pretty song, and she is quite beautiful in the above picture. I hope I didn’t harm you in any way, and I believe it wasn’t as bad as giving away your star war toys 😦
No apology necessary. For Rihanna, that is… the Star Wars toys are a whole other matter. 🙂
I understand. Why would you want to listen to songs composed by more accomplished musicians and songwriters when you can listen to a packaged piece of pop drivel? Makes sense to me. Not!
U2 are more accomplished musicians and songwriters than, say, Jack Johnson, but you’d rather listen to him, no?
Actually, I disagree with your premise–I think Jack Johnson is a very good musician and songwriter. Obviously, he has a more mellow sound, but what exactly makes U2 better songwriters?
Well, the phrase we’re using is “more accomplished” which is not the same as better. U2, with all of their Grammys and critics’ adoration and multi-platinum records and Hall of Fame status, are undoubtedly more accomplished than Johnson.
Also, Johnson isn’t the best example. Rihanna doesn’t play any instruments (as far as I know) and she co-writes her songs (a lot of them, anyway) so she’s not really in the same game in terms of musicianship and songwriting.
I’m just saying I listen to Rihanna far more than either Browne or Jackson, despite their bona fides, and that is ultimately the test of what you “like” better, isn’t it?
I think that this is about favoring the new over the old, just as you initially did when creating your favorite directors list (until you later broke it down between “hot” and “all time” directors). Your initial directors list indicated a clear preference for the hot newer ones, and a bias against older directors who had made several great films that you adored, but also had duds in their careers.
The same seems to be true to a large extent with you and music.. Rihanna, as a new artist with relatively few albums under her belt, is “this year’s model” to quote the great (but older) Costello. So, you give her more time on your CD player and find her “better” than older artists like Joe Jackson and Jackson Browne, each of whom have been recording for at least 30 years and have made both great and lesser albums.
I would suspect that you have played Rihanna more in the past year or so than you have Costello, Ben Folds or Rufus Wainwright, but would not say she was better than them, right? So I don’t think the fact that you are presently listening to Rihanna more leads to the conclusion that you find her better.
Let’s have this discussion 10 years from now, after Rihanna has put out another 3-5 albums, some good, some duds, and tell me if you still think she is the “better” artist over the likes of Jackson Browne and Joe Jackson.
Incorrect. I play Folds, Costello and Wainwright as much as Rihanna, and I play them all more than either Jackson or Browne. I do tend to play my newest CDs more than the rest, but that’s just for the first few months.
I’ll add that “better” is probably not the right word to use for this sort of thing. For example, is The Last Emperor a “better” movie than Forgetting Sarah Marshall? Maybe, maybe not, depending on how you look at it.
But which would you watch more often given the choice? Probably a no-brainer.
So, let me get this straight—your list of top 10 favorite artists would include Costello, Mann, Wainwright, Rihanna, The Beatles, Folds, Apple and Dylan?
Sorry, but all that comes to mind when I see that list is “One of these people is doing her own thing, tell me can you guess which one? Can you guess which one is doing her own thing? Tell me before my song is done.”
“And now my song is done!”
No, Rihanna wouldn’t be in my list of top ten favorite artists. Where did you get that idea? But neither would Joe Jackson or Jackson Browne.
Top 20? Top 30?
Again, let’s revisit this in 10 years and you tell me if you still like Rihanna better than Joe Jackson and Jackson Browne. (DO you think other readers are scratching their heads wondering why Rihanna must be compared only to Joe Jackson and Jackson Browne?:))
Ha… yes, this might be the first time those three names have been part of the same ongoing debate. Somewhere, somebody doing a Google search for “Joe Jackson AND Jackson Browne AND Rihanna” will be very happy.
By your theory, in 10 years Jackson Browne and Joe Jackson will be that much more dead to me, so why would they leap frog Rihanna at that point? Or are you suggesting that I will have lost interest in her so all of their music would be in a great big dead zone and I’d fall back on measuring them by more “objective” criteria than how often I listen to their music?
I suppose that’s possible. We’ll know on July 1, 2020… mark the date!
Right, my theory is that you have a new infatuation with Rihanna that will fade and diminish over time and after you hear some work by her that is less appealing to you,. It’s not that she will become deader to you, it’s just that, in 10 years, your appreciation for her vis-a-vis her natural historic comparators with whom she is inextricably linked, Jackson Browne and Joe Jackson, will become more apparent.
I’m just curious when Clay has ever indicated a particular affection for either Joe Jackson or Jackson Brown? Perhaps Dana finds those artists particularly worthy of being placed on top ten lists, but I can’t recall a list of Clay’s that has ever contained an album by either of those talented gentlemen.
So I’m confused not to keep seeing their names in comparison to Rihanna, but to keep seeing their names in connection to Clay, who has never claimed to like either one all that much.
Good point, Amy. They probably aren’t the best examples for Dana’s purposes here.
Fair enough….my point is better made with Randy Newman (4 posts, 11 albums), Ben Folds (3 posts, 6 albums, 6 EPs) and Tom Petty (3 posts, 15 albums)….all of whom I would assume you like better than Rihanna, but none of whom come close to the eight times you have given Rihanna (with 2 albums that you own of 5 total) SOTD honors.
I said good day sir!
Your math is a bit off. I’ve featured Petty 4 times, not 3. And Ben Folds 14 times, not 3 (he’s one of my most featured artists). And I own 3 Rihanna albums, not 2.
Not to tip my hand, but both Petty and Newman will show up in future theme weeks (something their long careers makes possible).
Number of blog posts aside, I’d say I listen to more Ben Folds on a regular basis than Rihanna and about the same amount of Tom Petty and Rihanna. I don’t listen to Randy Newman as much as the rest, though I often kick myself for not doing so.
Oops, not sure how I missed the Folds posts, but leaving those aside, I stand by my point regarding Petty and Newman, notwithstanding the foxhole Christianity and after-the-fact remedial efforts you are now putting in motion to post theme weeks for them (and it should be mentioned that you didn’t even post a single Joe Jackson song until I mentioned the omission).
So, do you like Rihanna better than Petty and Newman?
Overall, no. But I like two of her albums better than most albums by either of them. I’d rank Petty’s Wildflowers and Full Moon Fever ahead of Rihanna’s work and Newman’s 12 Songs and Sail Away as well. But I’d rank Good Girl Gone Bad and Rated R above the rest of Newman and Petty’s output.
I’d give them the nod as “better” overall, though, because (as you point out) they have released consistently good albums over a long period of time.
I’ll add, however, that it’s not always as simple as that. I’d rank Fiona Apple ahead of all three of those artists, and she’s released only three albums total.
Your last comment just proves my point. You favor the new over the old or, in the case of Fiona, those with less output over those with more.
You seriously rank Rihanna’s 2 albums over Petty’s debut album (with the classics “Breakdown” and “American Girl” among many others, Southern Accents, Damn the Torpedoes and Into the Great Wide Open and over Newman’s Trouble in Paradise, Bad Love and Harps and Angels?
Let’s talk about this in 10 years. Your mind has been clouded by a two year output by an artist who will be on a “What ever happened to….” VH1 special by 2020.
I just said I rank Newman and Petty ahead of RIhanna, so how am I favoring the new over the old? If anything, my comment disproves your point.
Yes, I rank Rihanna’s two most recent albums over the ones you mention.
I wonder if perhaps you’re projecting a mirror of your own preferences onto me. Could it be that you have a real aversion to anything “new” (defined as debuting during the last 5-10 years)?
I submit that this blog, and my CD collection in general, is a pretty even mix of the old and the new. Your tastes, on the other hand, skew heavily toward established artists.
When you see me featuring newer artists (especially somebody as low rent and common as Rihanna, God forbid) it strikes you as wrong on some level, because it’s counter to your own opinion. So you come up with a theory to explain why my taste would differ from what’s “right.”
We’ve had this conversation for years, and I always come back to the same conclusion: We like what we like, for whatever reasons, and nobody is right or wrong.
No, you’re appreciation for Rihanna is objectively wrong, and you will not hold her in the same high regard 10 years from now:) Much like Goerge Bush, history will show that all of his actions were correct:)
But on a more serious note, I don’t discount the new over the old. In fact, there are a number of artists, many of whom you have introduced me to, that I would say are “better” than those I have loved for years. Examples include Ben Folds (though more established now, he was certainly “new” relative to people I liked at the time like Billy Joel, Elton John, etc…), Elliott Smith, Beck, Josh Rouse, Vampire Weekend, and on and on.
Look, like Rihanna all you want…I just have yet to hear anything out of her that truly impresses me, and I find most of the songs you have featured to be pretty ordinary. I see nothing as interesting, inventive, different, exciting, or “new” as the type of songs made years ago by the artists I have mentioned (Jackson, Browne, Petty,etc).
And yes, our discussions continue because, time and time again, it seems that you put the new artist who has made only a few works, whether in music or film, on a pedestal, while discounting and/or punishing more established artists who have substantial output, but have had missteps along the way. Your value of those artists seems particularly lowered if you see their best work as being in the past (Rob Reiner in movies, Joe Jackson in music).
But yes, you are, of course, correct, that, at the end of the day, we like what we like. So you just keep right on blasting that Rihanna in your car….
Discounting and punishing established artists like, say, Bob Dylan, Elvis Costello, R.E.M. and The Beatles, whose work has made up more than 20% of the total posts on this blog?
Or Lucinda Williams, Aimee Mann, Lyle Lovett, Talking Heads, The Smiths, etc., all artists who do fall into that Top 10 or Top 20 you were asking about?
I think this all falls back on poor Rihanna. If you liked her music you wouldn’t be looking for a reason to explain why I do. If this were my 8th Josh Rouse song, my guess is you’d say “Another great choice… he’s a real talent.”
In fact, I don’t have to guess. I recently posted the 11th Jose Rouse song on this blog and your comment was “Great song from a great album.”
Rather than say “I anticipate a retread of the debate…,” I clearly should have said I fear and dread a retread of the debate 😉
I’m intrigued by the notion that Clay is secretly a fan of packaged pop and look forward to testing the theory!
I wouldn’t say it’s a secret. Dana has been hammering me on that for awhile now. 🙂 But you better not spring no American Idol on me…
I was referring to your comment early yesterday morning that you may be a bigger fan than either of us realized 😉
As for AI, funny you should say that…. 😉
I’m not going to spring anything from the show on you, but I was thinking how the show – and my children – are my source for “new music.” Not that I always love (or even like) that new music, but I definitely have more of what’s new on my radar in the past few years than I did before my kids became independent music fans and I started watching the show.
I’m not referring to new music on AI as the contestants who become artists (though that’s certainly as “new” as an artist can possibly be!) but rather the many artists who appear on the show (Pink, Lady Gaga, Lady Antebellum, Ke$ha, Orianthi, Diddy and Dirty Money, Sons of Sylvia, Flo Rida, and so on and so forth). Many of these performances leave me cold, so I’m happy to go back to my Tracy Chapman and Counting Crows album, but now and then I’m intrigued and want to hear more.
As for my kids, I have them to thank for my introduction to Taylor Swift, Plain White T’s, IYAZ, Owl City, Mat Kearney, The Script, 3OH!3, One Republic; I’m happy to say there is a much higher rate of success with my liking the music I’m introduced to by my kids, so it’s good to know that some musical taste is genetic (or nurtured) –
so, I do think Dana and I are more aware of new artists than we ever used to be, but I still think we gravitate towards the more established music we have loved for years.
I forgot to mention Snow Patrol and Matt Nathanson, who have recorded two of the songs I’ve become most attached to in recent months (year?) – “Chasing Cars” and “Come On Get Higher”
Curious to know whether you like Rihanna more than Lyle Lovett, the Talking Heads or The Smiths? Are there more than two albums from these artists that you like better than the two from Rihanna?
Anyway, you are probably right that much of this discussion is simply based on my shock and amazement that you hold a lightweight like Rihanna in such high regard. I don’t raise the same accusations for the likes of a Josh Rouse because he is, in my opinion, in another creative universe than Rihanna.
It basically boils down to what your mother said–Rihanna sucks. Oh, and I’m glad she threw away those Star War Toys! Bah humbug!
I don’t like Rihanna more than Lovett, Talking Heads or The Smiths, no.
Since you asked, off the top of my head, I’d rank Lovett’s The Road to Ensenada, Joshua Judges Ruth, Pontiac and Large Band ahead of Rihanna’s albums. I don’t know if there’s a single Talking Heads album I’d rank above her most recent CDs… they’re not really an “album” group in that sense. As for The Smiths, I’d rank The Queen is Dead over anything by Rihanna but not the rest.
The album comparison vs. the overall comparison is really two different things. As Amy said in her Jude comment, an artist can have one really stellar album but not do much else. Or an artist can be generally wonderful but never quite put it all together on one album (I think Talking Heads is a good example of that… they tend to have one or two songs on every album that are just difficult to listen to, and that drags down the whole album as a unit).
Amy, the way you’re throwing around these band names makes me look like a classic rock DJ. 🙂 I haven’t heard of several of the artists you mentioned (Taylor Swift, Plain White Ts and Owl City being the exceptions).
I do know the two songs you embedded (and I like them) though I didn’t know who performed them before now.
and you didn’t know Plain White T’s or Owl City until we introduced them to you, if I recall 🙂 Love having a teenage daughter; I can finally drop the name of musical artist you don’t know!!! (not that you would necessarily like them, but still)
oh, and by the way, you’ve heard of Ke$ha as you featured one of her songs (much to my shock and dismay) on your blog. I’m sure you’ve also heard of Diddy (though maybe you haven’t yet heard him perform with Dirty Money), Flo Rida, Lady Gaga and Pink!
Still, I agree that your blog skews towards established artists, which is why Dana’s criticism that you favor the new over the old doesn’t strike me as particularly valid. Let’s get some young blood featured on this blog already! 😉
Sorry, it’s Buffalo Springfield and Crosby Stills and Nash from here on out…